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Robin Hood 3x10 Review: Bad Blood

  • Jun. 10th, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Guy/Marian by Pillar

For the first time that I can remember, I have a fandom opinion that makes me really nervous when I think about airing it in public.  In fact, if I didn't have such faith in the maturity of the people in the Robin Hood community, I'd heading over to [info]fandomsecrets right now to post a secret containing this next statement rather than writing it in my journal.

My big secret? I loved this episode.

Before you start taking my temperature and wondering if I haven't contracted some sort of rare, aggressive, degenerative brain disease, let me explain why.


The name of today's performance: A Terrible Idea, Well Executed, or, It Could Have Been So Much Worse.

Most of the fandom outrage seems to center around the fact that it is very difficult, nigh on impossible, even, to reconcile "Bad Blood" with everything we thought we knew about the history between these characters (though [info]railise makes some really interesting points in attempting to do so here).  Back when I first heard about the flashback episode, I was angry as well.  I heard rumors there was going to be a flashback episode several months before series three started to air, and I even saw pictures of the actor supposedly chosen to play Young!Guy. I suspected/knew even then that he was going to be meeting Robin in the flashback and wreaking havoc with previously established canon.  That means I had months to adjust to the possibility of this episode, and a week from the time I saw the actual trailer to adjust to its reality.  Therefore, I had largely dealt with my "THEY'RE SCREWING OVER SERIES 1 AND 2 CANON!" rage before the episode ever aired.  (Though I understand and sympathize with those who felt it anew or for the first time as they watched.) 

It goes without saying that I have some problems with the direction that this show is going. I think the show runners have approved some terrible ideas in terms of character development and story arcs.  And as terrible ideas go, the idea of having an episode with a love triangle involving Robin and Guy's parents where they find out from Robin's long lost father that they have a half brother is REALLY bad.  It's right up there with, "The audience will love a feisty village girl named Kate!" and "Personality?  Allan doesn't need a personality!" and even possibly "You know what would be cool?  If we killed Marian off."  Yeah.  It's that bad.

However,  my options at this point seem to be these:  I can stop watching completely.  This is not very likely.  I'm dying to see what Richard does with Redeemable Guy.  Or, I can set aside the over-arching wrongness and try to enjoy the little things.  And when I did that, I realized that for what it was, "Bad Blood" was really well-executed (rays of sun and magically appearing bows aside).  We got to meet some sympathetic, believable new people (Roger, Ghislaine, and Malcom) who made bad choices and good choices and generally acted like human beings, and it managed not to mangle either Robin or Guy's characters, which is a huge feat.

Some Thoughts on The Present.

I am very curious as to how long Guy has been roaming around the forest.  He's still wearing the same clothing he was the last time we saw him, but I don't suppose he'd be able to find spare shirts and trousers lying around Sherwood. My guess is that it's been a couple of days, though I suppose it could be as early as the day after Meg's death. However long it's been, Guy has obviously had time to arm himself.  He's got a bow and a sword now, and I have a theory as to where he got them.  Guy must have known that at some point, he might need to leave Nottingham in haste, either with Vasey or without him, so, he's stashed weapons in various hiding places in outlying areas of Nottingham, and he simply went and retrieved some of them.  That being said, he still looks terrible... jumpy and tired and desperate.

I actually really enjoyed the interaction between Guy and Robin at the beginning.  Robin could easily have killed Guy here.  He's been following Guy for miles, and though Robin taunts him a little about it not being so easy in the forest, he doesn't seem eager to kill him or chase him off.  It's almost like Robin was just waiting to see what Guy would do.  Perhaps seeing Guy have a moment of selfless compassion made Robin think twice about passing judgment on him.  Of course, Guy is running on nothing but anger and adrenaline at this point, so it's not too surprising that he doesn't want to talk and draws his sword on Robin.  And even then, Robin doesn't seem to want to fight.  It would be an easy victory for him, and yet he is reluctant.  This very easily could have been an awful, cocky, "I don't want to fight you when you're weak because that would be too easy" moment, but it isn't.  Robin just seems weary of it all.  I think there is something of pity there, as well, and I think I might even hear a little bit of concern in Robin's voice when Guy falls.  It wouldn't be unreasonable for Robin to be thinking Guy had collapsed from hunger and exhaustion. And he actually looked worried about it. Of course, he's probably also (rightly) worried that whatever got Guy might be about to get him, so his concern could be completely out of self preservation.  I like to think it's a little of both.   

Robin and Guy both react characteristically to Malcom's story, Robin in his naive, slightly preachy way, Guy with mistrust and anger.  However, I think that the way the episode unfolds, with the characters putting pieces of information together slowly, coming to at least understand what the other has gone through, worked really well.  For instance, the moment Guy realized that his mother had been in labor is really nice.  There's this strange mixture of regret and hope on his face as it dawns on him that he might have other family out there.  On Robin's side, I tend to take his "It made me a better man" speech in regards to lying about whose arrow had brought down the fire as classic Robin, but what's new is that when Guy calls him on it, Robin seems to listen.  (He doesn't have much of a choice, being all tied up and all... It seems that on this show, to make characters have any sort of meaningful interaction with each other, they have to be tied up or in prison to prevent them storming off or trying to kill each other.  Does anyone else notice this trend?)  I really do think that it's significant that Robin apologizes to Guy here, though it's a case of too little, too late.

The big thing for Guy this episode, I think, was the revelation that his parents' death wasn't his fault.  Everything else, the stuff about his brother, the fact that Robin's dad is alive... that's all insignificant in comparison.  We all knew he was walking around carrying guilt about Marian this whole season, and I've been saying since the first series that Guy seems... uncomfortable with some of the more horrid things the Sheriff does, but for him to carry around the "I killed my parents" kind of guilt for all those years... that has to leave a mark on a man.  And Guy knows it. That's why he's so angry at Robin's dad for letting him think it for so long... but behind that anger, you can see a tremendous amount of relief, and he's different after this.  More... balanced, somehow.

As for the reappearance of Robin's father... yes, it's contrived, yes, it raises questions like, "What the heck has Malcom been doing all these years?  Why didn't he come to Robin before now?" but the reactions that Guy and Robin have to this unlikely turn of events work for me. I liked that Robin didn't immediately forgive his father.  In fact, I like that he tells Malcom he's lost the right to call him "son."  That was a powerful, well-delivered line.  Of course, he forgives Malcom eventually, but that is in character for Robin too, I think.  As for Guy... Malcom seems to know how to play to Guy's humanity.  He emphasizes conscience, which is a big deal for Guy right now, and he reminds Guy that he would be saving Archer for Ghislaine's sake, and think what he might of her for her affair with Malcom, Guy loved his mother.  It was exactly the right thing for Malcom to say to get Guy's attention.

In an episode filled with brain-shattering revelations, I think it's worth mentioning that Robin seems genuinely stunned that Guy killed Vasey.  You can almost see Robin's entire conception of the world rearranging itself when Guy tells him that he was the one who held the knife and rid Robin of his worst enemy. In that same vein, a lot has been made of the fact that Robin is mad at Guy for not showing remorse for killing Marian, but he also mentions the fact that Guy served Vasey and did horrible things in his name for years... in a way, I don't think Robin thought Guy capable of standing up to the Sheriff, and Robin reads the fact that Guy did as a show or remorse, or some sort of attempt to atone for all of the things he did in Vasey's name. 

The purpose of this episode was to bring Guy and Robin together, and for me, the moment that was really achieved is when Robin asks his father, "And you expect us to forgive you?"  Ladies and gentlemen, that would be Robin referring to himself and Guy as us without batting an eyelash.  I think it is so important here that Robin uses "us" instead of "me."  It shows that on some level, he recognizes Guy's feelings, Guy's reasons for not wanting to forgive Malcom, as equally valid and worthy of outrage.  The deal is sealed, of course, when Guy offers Robin his hand.  I love that Robin, at first, assumes that Guy still wants to fight here, but when he sees that Guy is on board with helping their brother, he takes it with no grimaces or reservations.

For all that I don't think I'm going to be able to stand Archer, I'm glad that Guy has something to do at this point other than kill Isabella.  Guy needs purpose. He's got it now, and it's a purpose that involves saving a life instead of killing someone.  It makes sense that, having lost both of his parents and his baby sister hating him, he'd like to meet some family with whom he can have a fresh start.  Also, I don't think Guy would want to let anyone who had his mother's blood die unjustly. (Though he's perfectly ok with killing Isabella, who is also his mother's child, after what she did to Meg, and I'm not going to call him on that on account of extreme Meg-bias.)


Young!Guy and Young!Robin

First of all, let me just say that I adore the casting in this episode.  The kids who they got to play Guy and Robin were perfect. I wonder if they got to spend time with their older counterparts, because they both had mannerisms and expressions down really well.

Now, let's talk about Robin.  Does he act like a spoiled brat on several occasions? Yes.  Yes he does.  Is that perfectly understandable? I think it is.  Robin is (to his knowledge, at least...) the only son of a very wealthy, well-respected member of the land-owning nobility.  He's obviously got some natural talent in the archery department, and he knows it. However... I also found myself really feeling for the kid. Not that I never wanted to smack him around for being a prat and terribly mean to Guy, but... his actions are understandable.  Take lying about who shot the arrow, for instance.  I don't think that was a pre-meditated lie.  In the shock of what's just happened, Robin denies doing something that he thinks has just killed a man.  I don't even think it crossed his mind that Guy would be blamed for it when he denied shooting the arrow.  Then, when Guy is accused, Robin looks horribly guilty.  Could he have spoken up?  Yes, but I don't know many nine year olds (that seems to be the age I've settled on for Robin...) who would be so mature and brave as to own up to doing something really dangerous and then lying about it, especially when he sees how angry the crowd is getting at Guy.  He's obviously terrified, and though I think that he feels bad about Guy getting the blame, he can't quite bring himself to speak up.

In a way, Guy is right.  Robin was naive and sheltered.  Malcom didn't help this by hiding things, like the fact that he was going to marry Ghislaine, from his son because he's "too young" to handle it. So, while Young Robin is immature and a bit bratty, he shows promise.  First of all, he does run in and tell his father that they're about to hang Guy outside.  Not a terribly impressive moral act, but better than letting Guy die for a crime he didn't commit.  Second, I am incredibly impressed that Robin tells his father whose fault it was later.  He didn't have to do that.  The priest had lived, and no one was talking about hanging any more. He could have let his father continue to assume that Guy had shot the arrow.  But he owns up to it.  I also really like the advice his father gives him here, because I think that when Robin is at his best, you can see this sentiment, the idea that fear shouldn't keep you from doing the right thing, shining through.  Robin could have kept his lands when he returned from the Holy Land... all he would have had to do was let Will, Luke, and Allan die. But he doesn't. And I think the memory of this speech is a big reason why. (And that is all I'm going to say about 1x01 and this episode. Any more and I'm going to start thinking too hard about it and foaming at the mouth.)

I also like the scene where Robin is being bratty about going to a "leper's house" and Malcom takes him aside and reminds Robin of what Guy has lost.  This inability to put himself into the position of someone he already doesn't like is a trait that Robin still struggles with, and it was good to see that his father was starting to work on that with him.  However, Malcom doesn't stay around long enough to help him completely grow out of it.  I think that just as much as Guy, Robin needed his father around, because I would imagine that none of his "advisers" that helped him run his estate were as hard on him as they should have been. 

And now, for younger Guy.  I loved the kid they got to play him.  He had Guy's broodiness, his black and white view of the world, and his sarcasm, but there was also a vulnerability that we only get to see in very rare occasions in older Guy.  The scene with the two boys standing side by side with their bows says a lot about how they relate to each other.  Guy... almost acts like an older, more responsible brother here, old enough to know Robin's out of line, but young enough not to be able to correct him in any sort of useful way.  So instead, he's fed up with younger Robin's ego and making brilliantly snide remarks about how everyone only thinks Robin's the best because Robin keeps telling them he is.  *snerk*  I knew I was going to love younger Guy in that moment.   But underneath the sarcasm, Guy really doesn't want Robin to hurt anyone. He may be a bit mean and overbearing about it, but that's how older kids are when they're fed up with younger ones.  And Robin is certainly being a prat here.

This scene also makes me wonder how much contact the two of them have had with each other... a question we will probably never have answered.  I really don't think Guy has been living near Locksley his whole life, though.  It would make sense for him and Isabella to have been born in France and moved to England when Roger was granted lands there for his bravery in the crusades. (Meaning that it was more of a recent thing?  Who knows... considering there were no crusades going on at the time, for all we know, the writers are going off of the assumption that the Middle Ages were all One Long Crusade, and Roger could have been granted his lands years ago. *sigh*) 

Having done a lot of thinking about Guy's father/son relationship with Vasey, it was good to be able to see him interact with his own father. It is obvious that Guy not only looked up to him and needed him to be around, but he loved him.  A lot.  And he can't understand why Roger would allow himself to be run out of the village without a fight.  It's classic Guy black and white thinking again... if his father loved them, why wouldn't he fight for them?  He can't wrap his mind around the idea that Roger is letting himself be exiled because he loves them, and thinks they'll have a better life without him.  His father telling him to be a man, not a boy about it... wow.  I understand why Roger said it... to keep Guy from making a bad situation worse, but Guy takes it hard.  Guy's reaction when he finds out his mother has been secretly seeing his father is also very telling.  I think Guy sees caring for his sick father as a privilege, and he's angry that his mother took it upon herself and didn't allow him to be part of it.  Also, he might see it as, "If you're strong enough to care for him and watch him die, I am too."

When he finally confronts his father in the leper camp, Guy acts very much like one would expect - hurt and confused and lashing out at his father with the most hurtful words possible.  I think it's very significant that Guy only calls his father a leper after he's decided that Roger could have done more to fight for them.  (That whole scene is brilliant... especially the devastated look on Roger's face when Guy calls him a leper.)  Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Guy tells a pretty big lie here to get under his father's skin.  Robin may be a prat, but Guy is no angel either.  He tells Roger that Malcom is forcing his mother to get married.  This isn't true, and Guy knows it.  His mother has told him it's for the best, and that Malcom is a good man, and he's seen that she cares for him.  Guy has no evidence that Ghislaine is being rushed.  However, that's how Guy sees the situation.  I think he's made up a story for himself about his mother being forced into marriage because he can't deal with the thought of her loving another man when his father is still alive.  So... perhaps Guy isn't lying, but rather presenting things from his point of view because he can't see them from any other. We all know how difficult it is for Guy to step outside of the reality he's built for himself.  Still... not the most honest moment of his young life.  

Lots of defining moments in Guy's life have involved standing by helplessly while Really Bad Things happen to him.  He had to watch his father get exiled.  He had to watch Marian get traded off to another man, once. (Yes, they got her back later, but he didn't know that was going to happen at the time.)  He had to watch Prince John burn down his church in his village.  And now, we learn that he had to stand by and watch his house burn down with his parents in it, thinking it was his fault.  (Though he assures Longthorn it was an accident, I think he's already blaming himself for it here.)  And not only are his parents dead, he's now landless and homeless... and there's nothing he can do about it, no one he can rely on for help.  I think this scene also drives home the fact that even when they were younger, Robin was surrounded by people who were willing to help him, to support him and give him the chance to grow into his responsibilities.  Guy has no one after his parents die.  Longthorn chases them off "his" lands, and no one lifts a finger to stop them from going.  Guy's intense need for position and for land start right here.  If he'd had more power, if he'd been more secure in his position, he could have told Longthron to jump off a cliff and taken his rightful place.  But he didn't, and I think that he's been compensating for it ever since, trying to get to a place of security where no one can take what he values from him or hurt people close to him.


Locksley/Gisborne Love Triangle, version 1.0

Before last Saturday, for all any of us knew, Robin had sprung fully formed from the head of King Richard and Guy had come from somewhere in France.  Maybe.  At least we knew his mother did. So, I was curious as to what they were going to do with Guy and Robin's parents.  I was dubious about the love triangle, but I think it ended up working quite nicely.  Again, this show manages to pull off some excellent casting and make these three one-shot characters real and well-rounded.

I really felt for Ghislaine.  I don't think that she started her relationship with Malcom until after she thought that Roger was dead, and she seems to genuinely love both men.  That was... well done.  If she had only been using one of them (and on this show, I fear it would have been Guy's father) it would have been taking the Robin/Guy/Marian parallel one step too far.  The circumstances were different enough that it echoes the other story without repeating it.  Also, from what little we see of her, it seems that she was a smart, kind, confident woman.  (And stunningly pretty, as well... I can see where Guy gets his strong features.)  I really love the little moment between her and little Robin when she's asking him to "help" her.  It's... sweet, and idyllic and seems to indicate that she knows Robin well enough to be in his "adult I want to please" category.  Yes, she makes mistakes, like letting Malcom reveal Roger's sickness to everyone. But I think that was a mistake made out of love and a great deal of emotional distress.  She makes some hard, grown-up decisions, like declaring herself a widow for the sake of her children, and I really respect her for that.  That's the pragmatic part of me.  The romantic in my loves her going into the forest to nurse Roger even though she's about to marry someone else.  Sometimes things aren't simple. I think she gets that, and is making the best of a very tangled situation. 

Now, as for Malcom... I have mixed feelings here.  His leaving at the end was ridiculous, but necessary for the plot of the show.  Before that, though, I actually liked him a lot.  He seems to have a sense of fairness, which comes out when he throws his authority around for Guy's sake when Longthorn is about to hang him.  He also seems to be a good father to Robin... reminding his young, somewhat spoiled son that there's more to being a leader than talent and ego. He also tried to do the "right thing" and stay away from Ghislaine after Roger came back.  I think that shows a lot of honor on both of their parts. Finally, He seems to truly love Ghislaine and want what's best for her, and for Guy and Isabella as well.   He does seem to be planning to preserve Guy's inheritance when he talks about the future with Ghislaine... it wouldn't have been difficult for him to take it all back for Robin's sake.  But he doesn't.  Yes, he makes some bad choices, but they were choices based on love and concern.  I don't know much about how the families of lepers were treated historically, but if it's as bad as Malcom is making it out to be, he has every reason to be afraid for her sake and for her children.  Should he have talked to Roger privately first before getting the priest and the bailiff involved? Yes. And I think that together, they could have worked out some way to hide it better until the end.  But I don't think the thought ever crossed Malcom's mind.  So... bad choice, but understandable given the circumstances.  I'm a little angrier at him for throwing the love-child, until then kept secret, in Roger's face there at the end, but I guess I could see this more as a "remember your newborn and get out of the burning building" thing directed at Ghislaine than an attempt to hurt Roger.

That... brings me to Guy's father. Roger of Gisborne is... amazing.  We don't get to know very much about him, but in what we do get to see, he does some things that make him a pretty fantastic human being.  He is a good, kind man who loved his wife, loved his children, and had the maturity to think of their future when he was gone.  I was ready for some anger on his part when he found out about the affair, and the calm, understanding way he took it blew me away.  It also breaks me to think that if he'd been allowed to die in peace, some of that understanding might have rubbed off on Guy. It's blatantly obvious that Guy would have been a better person if he'd gotten to spend more time with him... Anyway.  Roger takes the shame of being exiled upon himself, practically forces his wife to declare herself a widow, and is willing to go die in a leper colony until he thinks that his wife is being taken advantage of.  I don't think one can get much more self sacrificing.  However, the big thing he does that earns him my infinite respect is this:  He has the chance to kill Malcom, and he doesn't do it.  (And did anyone else think that for a man with leprosy, Guy's dad is a kickass swordsman?)  Think about this.  Malcom has fathered a child with his wife.  He's the one who was responsible for revealing the leprosy.  He's just killed Ghislaine, and Roger has him at the point of his sword and lets him go.  He doesn't want revenge. He wants to mourn his wife.  (I know I talk about things that break me all the time... but the continuity of Roger holding Ghislaine and Guy holding Meg and Marian really did make me feel like I'd been punched in the chest.)

Oh, and on the subject of Ghislaine's death... I think that this moment suffers from the show's reluctance to show real violence/blood.  I've watched that moment a couple of times, and I think that Malcom hit her in the nose with either the pommel of his sword or his elbow, and he hit her hard enough to kill her. I think I remember reading that one can die from that if one gets hit at the right angle with enough force... it was just bad luck that Malcom happened to do it on accident.  There's no way she died from falling straight back like she does.  Also, we have to take into account that she's still recovering from giving birth less than a week earlier at this point... and the show seems to indicate that it wasn't an easy delivery. 

Places where they missed the boat.

Longthorn should have been Vasey.  It would have explained the timeline issue from "The Taxman Cometh," and unless they have a better Vasey backstory planned, I will continue to be disappointed.  If he had been Vasey, it would have expalined how he knows what Guys weaknesses are, and he could have used them to scheme to get power back after he was dismissed... *sigh* Such a wasted opportunity.

I want to know what village most of the action took place in. Was it Locksley?  I was under the impression that it was a village attached to Gisborne manor.  Or was Gisborne manner just that... a manor with no village?  Just some land worked by neighboring peasants?  That's not the impression I got from the episode.  I got the impression that the village was under the Gisborne family's control. So, how is Robin the best shot in Guy's village?  Robin doesn't even live there. 

Tell me if I'm wrong, historian types on my f-list, but if I remember correctly, Ghislaine's pregnancy would have been no big deal as long as Malcom acknowledged the child as his own and adopted him as an heir.  Her insane worry about people finding out about the pregnancy seems out of proportion.  Sure, people would have talked, and it would have been shameful, but if Malcom says, "I will be treating this child as legitimate," no one can really do anything about it.  

I am with the rest of the fandom when I say, "WTF, magically appearing recurve bow."  I liked that Robin went to his mother's grave for strength. That was sweet. To have the light from heaven grant him a bow... that was ridiculous.  So... here's what I think happened.  While Robin's eyes were closed, Malcom ran by (still steaming from being burned) and dropped the bow off for him, finally having decided that Robin is "ready" to have it, then ran off into the trees with Robin none the wiser. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.  (As for the fact that it's a recurve bow and not a longbow... I'm not even going to try.)

Malcom deciding to leave his nine year old son on his own because he's ashamed of an affair Robin wouldn't even know about unless he told him is ridiculous. I know they had to get rid of Malcom to keep up some semblance of continuity, but I could have bought a thousand other stories that would have been less made of FAIL.  That he was so badly wounded that by the time he'd healed, he didn't want to disrupt Robin's life any more. (Still horrible, but better than "I couldn't face the shame in your eyes.") Or maybe that he had forgotten who he was for a long time... they haven't had an amnesia episode for a long time.  Or even that he had tried  to come back later, but no one had believed he was who he said.  ALL OF THESE work better than what really happened. 

With Roger dead, why didn't Guy get Gisborne manor (or what was left of it and the surrounding lands)?  I know that Longthorn had tried to get the deed, but I didn't think anything official had happened yet.  I don't understand how little Robin running Longthorn off makes the village Robin's instead of Guy's.  One would think that anyone with knowledge of the situation would have counseled young Robin to give the village back to its rightful heir (Guy and Isabella couldn't have gotten too far down the road by then...).  I can understand younger Robin not thinking of that, but surely someone would have... It's like as soon as Guy and Isabella left, everyone conveniently forgot about them and their rights.

And to end on a positive note... Random things that were really cool:

The leper's bell! Historical accuracy win! (Though I'm having trouble coming up with a source that confirms the part about wives being allowed to declare themselves widows.  Anyone have more info about this? The information I've found in this school project and in the pages I can see from this book all seem to suggest that spouses were either expected to be celibate or go with their husbands/wives into exile or to the lepers' hospitals.)  There's some more historical accuracy win with the speech the priest gives at the graveside.  Turns out it's something called the "Mass of Separation" and there are two more complete versions of it here.

The leper colony is at the site of the outlaw's camp. I know that configuration of trees, and I know those rocks.  I know this may have been a choice made due to ease-of-filming, but I think it would be cool if the outlaws had chosen the site not knowing that it had once been a leper colony... (And if Will and Robin chose it for its sustainability as a long-term camp, it makes sense that others would have seen its potential too...)

I love it that when the priest says Robin will have help, Longthorn says, "What, from a simpering priest and a few villagers?"  I know it was an obvious anvil of foreshadowing, but it made me grin. That's exactly who he's going to have help from, and they're awesome, thank you very much.

Re: The Next Episode Preview.... *crosses fingers* Archer is good-looking, Guy interacts with the outlaws for the first time all season, and Guy and Robin are on the same side, back to back surrounded by enemies.  This has potential to be awesome, but there are so many ways that they could fail, and with this show's track record, I have every reason to be worried.

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]bookishy wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 01:41 am (UTC)
Truthfully, the farther away we get from this ep, the softer I am getting toward it. I DO think that it fits well with the essences of both Guy and Robin's characters, and I liked the way the love triangle was handled, i.e. that it was merely a side effect of the time. It still bugs me that it was thrown at us so suddenly. If they knew they were going to do this, I thought maybe they could have had Guy or Robin hint at knowing one another before to kind of ease us into the crack.

Longthorn should have been Vasey.
YES. I kept expecting them to reveal that it was really him, and I thought the actor looked enough like a younger version of him to maybe pull it off.

I am really looking forward to the next episode, and have a feeling that once I see Robin and Guy hating each other while working together, a lot of my curmudgeonliness will go out the window.

Great review, as always.
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 07:48 pm (UTC)
Thanks for commenting... I always appreciate your thoughts.

It still bugs me that it was thrown at us so suddenly. If they knew they were going to do this, I thought maybe they could have had Guy or Robin hint at knowing one another before to kind of ease us into the crack.

Of all of my regrets about this episode... this is the biggest. It would have been SO EASY. A comment here, an offhanded glance there... it wouldn't have had to be much. I was having a conversation with my room mates the other day, and someone suggested that the individual writers of this season's episodes wrote their scripts with little or no communication with each other and only the vaguest of plot outlines and character descriptions. It seems like there is no one person who is in charge of reading all of the scripts, managing character arcs from episode to episode, and doing other big-picture continuity checking. And though some of the actors manage to pull amazing performances out of this mess anyway, the show suffers greatly for it.

I thought the actor looked enough like a younger version of him to maybe pull it off.

I noticed this too! Then I realized how tall he was. Longthorn would dwarf Vasey, I think. (Not that this would have stopped them... Exhibit A: Robin's eye-color change.)
[info]bryar127 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 03:47 am (UTC)
I kind of loved it too. As I was watching it, I wasn't thrilled, but I think that was because it was not at all what I had expected. I thought we would get completely separate flashbacks for Guy and Robin (Guy selling Isabella/meeting Vasey and Robin meeting Much). Once I accepted it as not the stories of Guy and Robin and how they each grew up, but instead as the history of Guy and Robin's relationship, I ended up loving what they did there. Well, the whole being tied up by a hobo was pretty damn silly, but I have been wanting Robin and Guy to work together and be bitchyawesome since mid Season 2, so I don't care how many hobos from the past with clunky dialogue are required to get me there.

"Ladies and gentlemen, that would be Robin referring to himself and Guy as us without batting an eyelash"

Guy does it too--he says to Robin that Malcom betrayed "both of us." They're totally BFFs now.

"Malcom deciding to leave his nine year old son on his own because he's ashamed of an affair Robin wouldn't even know about unless he told him is ridiculous"

I thought that Malcolm took off because he was ashamed of causing Ghislane's death, not the affair?
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 07:55 pm (UTC)
I thought we would get completely separate flashbacks for Guy and Robin (Guy selling Isabella/meeting Vasey and Robin meeting Much).

I think that was what a lot of fandom was hoping for... it would have been awesome, and they could have played with interesting parallels and differences and foreshadowed all sorts of things... (Can you see that I've totally failed at the "move on and be happy with the good stuff you did get" attitude?)

I have been wanting Robin and Guy to work together and be bitchyawesome since mid Season 2

Amen to that. Also... bitchyawesome is my new favorite word. It's EXACTLY what Guy and Robin are going to be as they try to tolerate each other.

I thought that Malcolm took off because he was ashamed of causing Ghislane's death, not the affair?

Huh. Now that I think about it, that's a possibility too... but I think my point still stands... Malcom doesn't have to tell Robin ANYTHING about what happened. He doesn't need to lie, but telling your nine year old "Hey, I just killed a woman," isn't necessary or appropriate. So his "I couldn't bear to face you" stuff still seems out of place.
[info]ravenya03 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 06:37 am (UTC)
Longthorn should have been Vaysey - and the priest that got injured by the fireworks and later spoke up for Robin should have been Edward! It would have explained his frailty and Robin's later betrothal to Marian.

And the man that took Archer to his foster parents should have been Tuck! And Tuck should have been the one to tell Robin/Guy this particular story instead of leper!Malcolm...who has apparently been wandering around Sherwood all this time.

Seriously, it would have made SO MUCH MORE sense for Tuck to have been inserted in these flashbacks; hearing the confessions of the parents and quietly manipulating events. It would also explain his obsession with "Robin Hood as an ideal".

And where the heck were Dan and Jane Scarlett? *grumble*

So many obvious connections that the writers just didn't make, and I can't figure out why...
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 08:03 pm (UTC)
We need you on the writing staff, stat.

Seriously... Tuck being the one to take Archer away is FANTASTIC. We don't know much about his past, and he's been in England before... Also, he's someone both Guy and Robin would listen to, as well. (Though the thought of Tuck tying them both up so they couldn't run off or try and kill each other amuses me greatly.)

So many obvious connections that the writers just didn't make, and I can't figure out why...

I have come to the conclusion that it's because all of the writers this season wrote their scripts in isolation, with very little knowledge of what has come before. There isn't one person with an overarching vision for this show, or if there is, he's doing a poor job of realizing it day-to-day. I know from listening to other creators/writers talk about writing for shows that DO have that kind of vision... and it sounds very different from what I suspect happens with RH. For instance, I've heard Doctor Who and Buffy writers talk about handing in their scripts and having Russell T. Davies or Joss Whedon read them over and make changes or add things in or build off of things the writers had done that fit in with later episodes or referenced previous bits of canon. I REALLY don't think anyone is doing this for Robin Hood other than to check for the most basic of continuity. And, though I know that Russell and Joss have their faults, they also have the personality and the creative skills to HANDLE a big job like that. I don't know that Robin Hood has anyone comparable, which is sad.
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 09:38 pm (UTC)
****Also, he's someone both Guy and Robin would listen to, as well. (Though the thought of Tuck tying them both up so they couldn't run off or try and kill each other amuses me greatly.)****

I like the idea, but would Guy really listen to Tuck considering how completely Tuck betrayed him in Ep. 1? Especially after Guy gave what was almost tantamount (to Guy) to a confession re: the "demons clawing at my brain?" At a time when he was most vulnerable? Actually, I'm expecting a 1-2 sentence snark-fest between them this week. We'll see. Interesting idea, though!

****There isn't one person with an overarching vision for this show, or if there is, he's doing a poor job of realizing it day-to-day... I don't know that Robin Hood has anyone comparable, which is sad.****

Absolutely agreed!!! This has been my MAJOR complaint all along - no competent show runner. No one in charge. Bringing back Foz and Dom is not the answer, though some on these boards have mentioned that. Putting a competent Russell T. Davis or Julie Gardner-esque person in such a position? YES! I wonder if THAT what was behind the odd Jan(?)/Feb(?) interview that came out of the BBC with the woman who was excited and is the potential RH Season 4 showrunner, who said she wanted to make RH more like Docotor Who, i.e. quality-wise? And the BBC waying "IF it S4 is commissioned," putting it under the pervue of the woman in BBC Scotland? If there was no intention, why would you even say this? Noises being made for fandom that "the times they are a changin"??" Hopefully for the better? We can but hope.
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 12th, 2009 12:14 am (UTC)
but would Guy really listen to Tuck considering how completely Tuck betrayed him in Ep. 1?

Hmm... I hadn't thought of that. I think that Tuck has the force of personality to make Guy listen, at least, and at the point where this episode happens, I think Guy might be a little more willing to forgive, or barring that, to hear what Tuck has to say without completely dismissing him.

And I SO hope what you say is true about the season 4 showrunner. I've heard those rumors as well, and if they're true... I might be able to be PROUD of being a fan of this show again. (Though I'm already proud to be in the fandom... RH fans rock.)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 12th, 2009 06:29 pm (UTC)
****...at the point where this episode happens, I think Guy might be a little more willing to forgive, or barring that, to hear what Tuck has to say without completely dismissing him.****

Actually, this is an excellent point. Having gone through so much, Guy really may listen to him. It will be interesting to see what interaction they have tomorrow night. ;-)

****(Though I'm already proud to be in the fandom... RH fans rock.)****

Me too, and yes they do! Especially folks here on LJ who have such interesting insights and opinions! ;-) I'm trying incredibly hard to stay spoiler-free for that last 3 eps. You?
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 12th, 2009 06:30 pm (UTC)
That's me (points up). Sorry. Had had to log out of my computer due to issues.
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 06:36 pm (UTC)
Comment #1 -

A GREAT review, as always! Very well considered, and I agree with most of it. However, a few things I noticed...and some Guy/Meg love. ;-)

Jonas' inflection with "Really?" Fantastic.

Richard's "whatever" shrug following that? Fantastic

Great - The quiet realizations by Robin and Guy of their separate and shared histories, memories returning, accounts being called up, and Guy making (again!) EXCELLENT points which finally Robin listens to (somewhat). And YES to your pointing out the use/s of "US" by them both, referring to themselves. YEAH!

Looking back over the seasons, its interesting that Guy quite often really does - when not snarling - have some excellent points, especially in the S1 3 scene-long, forest smackdown-while-we-philosophize segment. Almost everything he says is true! And Robin can't admit/see it.

Malcolm letting Guy think he'd killed his parents all these years? MASSIVE FAIL! Along with his character-driven absurd disappearance again at the end...which let's Guy be funny!

A brown-eyed, Wee!Robin? ARGH! Yes, a small thing, but if they can make David Tennent a blue-eyed Casanova, they could surely spring 100 quid for soft contacts for the kid.

****He could have let his father continue to assume that Guy had shot the arrow. But he owns up to it.****

But he didn't do it voluntarily, really. He only did it because he was worried that his mother was watching in heaven, and could see everything he did/had done. THEN he confessed to Dad. Confessing because he was wrong vs. confessing because "I feel guilty re: Mom" isn't really the same thing. So, once again, Guy was right - Robin never did have to take genuine responsibility for his actions. You're right - too little, waaay too late.

****Guy must have known that at some point, he might need to leave Nottingham in haste, either with Vasey or without him, so, he's stashed weapons in various hiding places in outlying areas of Nottingham, and he simply went and retrieved some of them.****

YES! Oh, yes! This is soooo good, and I can't believe that I didn't have Guy stash weapons in my "escaping Nottingham" bit, ALONG with the money from Locksley. I'm embarrassed at myself. Our boy may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but when it comes to self-preservation? You bet. Makes perfect sense. Bravo. Canon for me. Wonder what else he has stashed, "just in case?"
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 08:09 pm (UTC)
Thank you!

Looking back over the seasons, its interesting that Guy quite often really does - when not snarling - have some excellent points

Very true. I love self-aware, smart Guy. I sometimes think he understands the way the world works better than anyone else on this show, but he's been kicked about so much by circumstances that he's constantly making terrible choices instead of USING that insight of his.

Confessing because he was wrong vs. confessing because "I feel guilty re: Mom" isn't really the same thing.

Point. However, I'm still in the "he confessed AT ALL?" *stares in dumbfounded shock* camp.

Our boy may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but when it comes to self-preservation? You bet.

I also like to think that this is how he came up with a plan to get Marian out of the castle in five minutes flat when she was about to be married off. Guy knows his escape routes...
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 09:43 pm (UTC)
****I sometimes think he understands the way the world works better than anyone else on this show, but he's been kicked about so much by circumstances that he's constantly making terrible choices instead of USING that insight of his.****

Now THAT is a very astute obervation about Guy. YES! I LIKE!

****Point. However, I'm still in the "he confessed AT ALL?" *stares in dumbfounded shock* camp.****

Well yes, you do have a point ther! LOL!

****I also like to think that this is how he came up with a plan to get Marian out of the castle in five minutes flat when she was about to be married off. Guy knows his escape routes...****

Oh, NICE! Of COURSE, he would! And used one of them after the fight with PJ. YEAH!


[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 06:55 pm (UTC)
Comment #2 -

****I am very curious as to how long Guy has been roaming around the forest. He's still wearing the same clothing he was the last time we saw him, but I don't suppose he'd be able to find spare shirts and trousers lying around Sherwood. My guess is that it's been a couple of days, though I suppose it could be as early as the day after Meg's death.****

My theory about this: It is the morning after Meg's death. Why? Because Guy says, "I don't need food or sleep to drive me." Clearly he's had neither, and you're right, he's running on pure adrenaline and the need for revenge. I think they would both have been executed late morning/midday. It took him awhile to carry her to Sherwood, as it was dark - though this is border-fall season, so days are shorter.

Meg dies and he either 1.) Buries her himself in the forest, 2a.) Takes her to a nearby monastery and asks them to bury her, which they do. (What monastery? Why the one next to the orphanage and lunatic asylum, of course.) He says her name is Margaret (of which "Meg" is a derivation...or another "M" name, heh) so that if Isabella's men come by, he's somewhat covered his tracks, and her grave will be left undisturbed. Guy then goes in search of one or more of his weapons caches by the light of the full moon (which was reflected off of the lake/pond earlier). Guy tries to sleep, but in a freakish cold snap, winter comes to Sherwood overnight, turning the green leaves from the night before to brown, with a wind that whips them all off of the trees, leaving stark trunks which provide little cover, and a very cold Guy in only his black pirate shirt.

---OR--- 2b.) Guy takes Meg's body to the monastery and leaves her in their care. Luckily for little NOT-really-most-sincerely-dead Meg, there's a monk there whose name may (or may not) be Cadfael, who may (or may not) bear an odd resemblance to actor Derek Jacobi, on leave from Shrewsbury Abbey. And who, as he happens to be an expert healer, realizes that Meg's ALIVE. He nurses her back to health and she's able to use the cover name of Margaret (keeping herself safe from Isabella), before, in time, quietly setting out to find Guy...who, natch, has no idea she's still alive. (Remember: We never saw her buried, etc. - Hey all this does my little Meg/Guy shipper's heart good. Sue me. And thanks for letting me play. ;-)

****Guy interacts with the outlaws for the first time all season, and Guy and Robin are on the same side, back to back surrounded by enemies. This has potential to be awesome, but there are so many ways that they could fail, and with this show's track record, I have every reason to be worried.****

I totally agree, cannot wait and am scared as hell. I am seriously crossing my fingers and toes. Guy and Allan - Come on, guys, SPEAK TO EACH OTHER!! Here's hoping for a good one. ;-)

Thanks again for the GREAT review and for indulging me my long comments!
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 08:14 pm (UTC)
Heh... I hadn't noticed the marked difference in the trees. Maybe it's a different part of the forest? Meg DID seem to die by a pond, and forests tend to be a little more verdant near water, maybe?

I grinned myself silly at your option #2. I totally hadn't been obsessing for the last two weeks over the possibility that she might be alive because we didn't see her buried and it doesn't seem like she got "stabbed" very deeply and it's totally possible that she's still breathing and Guy only thinks she's dead. Yeah. Totally hadn't crossed my mind. Ok... So it HAD crossed my mind. Maybe a little A LOT.

Also? Cadfael = WIN. I've only seen parts of the show, but I've read several of the books and really enjoyed them.
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 09:55 pm (UTC)
****Heh... I hadn't noticed the marked difference in the trees.****

Yeah, it occurred to me last night. And a nice thought, but how does one go from lush deep undergrown forest with full tree foilage, to bleak, frost-on-the-breath desolation & dead leaves, overnight? An assumption that people are not watching eps back-toback? ;-) And, if one films in July/August and comes back to film in late Oct/Nov....? Poor Richard. The man sweats in the summer in full costume and feezes in the winter in a cotton pirate shirt. Brrrrr....

****I grinned myself silly at your option #2...Ok... So it HAD crossed my mind. Maybe A LOT.****

HA! I'm so glad you liked that. I have no time to write fic, but heck, I can at least postulate theories, right? And no, you're not obsessing in any way, shape, or form, AT ALL. Apparently just like Me.

So glad you liked Cadfael(!). I love that his stories are even set within about 50 years of RH. And with THIS show? That's insanely historically accurate! ;-) Well...other than the fact that he's a fictional character and all.


[info]01cheers wrote:
Jun. 17th, 2009 07:43 pm (UTC)
Have finally read this comment that you mentioned - really, why are you NOT on the RH writing staff? Who can we bribe to get you there for season 4?
[info]karen747 wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2009 03:23 am (UTC)
You're very kind. Corri, Me, or both of us? ;-) See? I told you Corri's reviews were amazing!

Corri, meet **01cheers** whose writing a Guy/Meg fic in robinhoodbbc. **Cheers**, meet **corrielle**, writer of some of the MOST indepth, well-thought-through, and analytical RH reviews!

Corri - Wanna teamtag write an episode for S4? ;-)
It'd be fun and not TOO onerous considering we at least KNOW CANON and could make an episode WITH SENSE! You could take a sabbatical, I could take a leave of absence...and...and...go to Scotland - to recon., of course. ;-) (They should all be there by then, if all the rumors, etc. are true...) One day I would love to take a walk in the woods - and be able to write it off on my taxes as research. Heh. Assuming of course, that I ever make enough to write anything off. Ever. It's a quiet little fantasy... Of course we could always just e-mail it, but what would be the fun in THAT?

I'm trying so hard to stay spoiler-free, but have already learned one thing for Sat. night...and then put it out of my mind and refused to think about it. I want to be SURPRISED for the finale, darn it? You folks?
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2009 07:50 pm (UTC)
Hello [info]01cheers! I was happy to see some Guy/Meg fic going up... haven't had time to read much of it yet, but it's definitely on my "to do" list (somewhere after "survive today's episode").

Karen... As always, you are very kind. Hypothetical season 4 episode sounds fun... I may have my hands full with the [info]bigbanghood challenge for a while... I think I've bitten off a LOT more than I can chew there...

I've succeeded in staying Spoiler free so far... it's close to showtime, and I know nothing more than what was in the episode preview last week. I'm quite proud of myself for not looking at anything spoilery and of the community for policing itself so well...
[info]purple_dahlia wrote:
Jun. 11th, 2009 09:43 pm (UTC)
While I enjoy reading all the reviews, I must admit to especially liking your reviews. They always make me see things in a new light and rethink some of my opinions.

"Longthorn should have been Vasey."

I can't picture Guy working for the man who was primarily responsible for driving Guy and Izzy away.

"I want to know what village most of the action took place in. Was it Locksley? I was under the impression that it was a village attached to Gisborne manor. Or was Gisborne manner just that... a manor with no village? Just some land worked by neighboring peasants? That's not the impression I got from the episode. I got the impression that the village was under the Gisborne family's control. So, how is Robin the best shot in Guy's village? Robin doesn't even live there."

I don't think it was Locksley, but a neighboring village (maybe Clune or Nettlestone?). The villagers (and Malcolm) don't seem to know Sir Roger when he arrives. Roger has to introduce himself and even states that he's Guy's father. And earlier Malcolm rebukes the bailiff for saying the land should go back to Malcolm by pointing out that the king rewarded Roger for his services in the Holy Land. It seems to me that the land had been given to Roger while he was off fighting and the Gisbornes had arrived fairly recently. It also makes me wonder why the king took lands from Malcolm. Malcolm must have done something wrong. Maybe Malcolm had been asked/expected to fight in this Crusade as well, he didn't, and was punished. If so, that might be part of the reason Robin does fight in his turn.

"I love it that when the priest says Robin will have help"

I hated that. The priest let Guy and Izzy walk away to with only the clothes on their backs after their parents had just died, but he stands up for Robin. Huh? This is why Malcolm should have set the told everyone that it was Robin, not Guy, who fired the flaming arrow. It seems everyone thought they were well rid of the troublemaker. I like to think that when Guy returns years later and takes over the Locksley estates, he kicks the priest out.
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 12th, 2009 12:10 am (UTC)
I'm glad to hear you enjoy them!

I can't picture Guy working for the man who was primarily responsible for driving Guy and Izzy away.

That's... hard for me too, so I think I agree with you there. There definitely would have had to be some changes if they had gone that route. What I meant is that all of the initial setup made it seem like Longthorn was going to be someone important in the "present" of the show, and Vasey made sense. He even had some of Vasey's very specific villainous traits (like trying to hang Guy and blaming it on "the will of the people") but by the end it was clear that he was his own character and not Vasey at all.

It seems to me that the land had been given to Roger while he was off fighting and the Gisbornes had arrived fairly recently.

That makes a lot of sense to me. It would explain an awful lot of things... like why the people aren't more attached to Guy and Isabella. Also, I like what you say about Robin going off to fight because of his father. It puts a whole new spin on his unwavering devotion to Richard if in the back of his mind he is either trying to make up for his father's failure OR remembering what might happen to him if he DOESN'T fight.

The priest let Guy and Izzy walk away to with only the clothes on their backs after their parents had just died, but he stands up for Robin. Huh?

Yeah... you're not wrong here. There are two sides of me that watch that scene. One of them wants to be happy and think, "Yay! Foreshadowing of Tuck and Allan and Will and Much! How sweet and happy and wonderful!" The other half of me wants to scream "WANT TO HELP SOMEONE? GET YOUR ASSES DOWN THE ROAD AND STOP THOSE GISBORNES, YOU MISERABLE IDIOTS!" I was trying very hard to be positive when I wrote this review, so I think the first part of me won out over the second. Though, now that you mention it, the idea of Guy kicking out the man who didn't help him is wonderfully satisfying. (I'm a bad person, aren't I...)


[info]ladyuranus wrote:
Jun. 14th, 2009 10:09 pm (UTC)
I'm pretending this episode didn't exist, but I do have one thing to add--

In Hollywood, showrunners (normally the creators of the show) have every episode pitched to them personally. The goal of any staff writer (or freelancer) on the show is to live up to the showrunner's vision. So when bad continuity things happen in American shows, it's because someone wasn't reading the Bible and/or the showrunner didn't catch it.

In England, shows generally don't have staffs. Because the episode order is generally only 9 or so episodes, the creator (or team of creators) write every episode. Robin Hood, having both a staff and a longer episode count... I don't know. But because England doesn't have the same set-up as American shows do, it's not beyond believability that there is no writer's office or pitch meeting before a show. Hence, the terrible continuity things going on.
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2009 01:16 am (UTC)
Thanks for the information... I didn't know about that difference.
[info]classics_lover wrote:
Jun. 17th, 2009 11:04 pm (UTC)
I had a great, insightful, long comment all written out last week and the computer died before I could post it. (Argh!)

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but is as mentioned in one of te above comments, I'm not sure Vasey would have been that logical a choice for the Longthorne role, because Guy holds onto a grudge like a terrier does a bone.
One thing that makes me think "Aha! these writers aren't quite as dim as they seem" (which doesn't happen that often, let's face it) is that Sir Roger had leprosy, but Guy flouted the laws of the land to get close to him, and in the early series Vasey referred to women (and Marian in particular) as leper(s) to warn Guy away (or, y'know to mess with his head, but same effect) which warnings Guy roundly ignored. It explains a looooot. Well, for me it does. And it makes me wonder whether (or how much) Vasey knew about this. After all, he taunted Gisbourne for being a lord with no lands at another point - again suggesting awareness that his family had lost everything under a cloud of scandal - or at least that he *should* have had land.

As for the problems of continuity, I feel part of the problem for this series was (at least slightly related to) the death of Dominic's brother Anthony Minghella - who wouldn't leave a little unimportant thing like a tv show on the back burner after a sudden loss like that? And also the slight problem of Jonas' broken metatarsal bone in his foot that put a serious delay on filming. I saw Keith Allen on Never Mind The Buzzcocks lastt year mocking poor Jonas and his crutches, lol. But it's not like shows like this are expected to remember things that were talked about last week or month or year anytime in the show's history, really. ;-P
Historical accuracy the ADD way!
[info]corrielle wrote:
Jun. 18th, 2009 01:14 am (UTC)
Don't you hate it when computers do that?

I'm not sure Vasey would have been that logical a choice for the Longthorne role, because Guy holds onto a grudge like a terrier does a bone.

You definitely have a point there. I think my thoughts in this area have shifted to "I wish that younger Vasey had been included AT ALL, along with Younger Much and Younger Will Scarlett..."

I didn't know that one of the creators had had a death in the family... I'm sorry to hear it.



[info]aceofhadeon wrote:
Jul. 9th, 2009 08:10 pm (UTC)
By this point in the series, I was resigned to just watching Richard. So I was pretty happy with this ep, all things considered. And they didn't stray really really far from Richard's version of Guy's history, so that was good.

I'm dying to see what Richard does with Redeemable Guy

And there you have my reason for continued watching!

It seems that on this show, to make characters have any sort of meaningful interaction with each other, they have to be tied up or in prison to prevent them storming off or trying to kill each other.

Yeah, and once they have the tied-up talk, they usually understand each other. It's like magic! I think they should just tie everybody up and have them talk - according to show precedent, this would solve everything.

<.i>you can see a tremendous amount of relief, and he's different after this. More... balanced, somehow. </i>

This really makes me wish they'd let Richard know at the start of S1 what Guy's history was. I think he would have reacted differently in some situations, namely the scene where he burns down Marian's house.

Lots of defining moments in Guy's life have involved standing by helplessly while Really Bad Things happen to him. ... Guy's intense need for position and for land start right here. If he'd had more power, if he'd been more secure in his position,

This is an excellent observation! Heh, we think alike. As I was reading the first line I've quoted there, I was thinking the exact thing you said in the second line quoted. His need for power doesn't just stem from ambition; it comes also from a need for security.

Longthorn should have been Vasey

Yes! So yes! That would have been an amazing bit of continuity for this show. And I've been missing Keith, so it would have been a nice hello.

Ghislaine's pregnancy would have been no big deal as long as Malcom acknowledged the child as his own and adopted him as an heir.

Right, as far as I remember. They'd even put in their last name that they were illegitimate, 'cause it was better to be the illegitimate kid of a lord than the legit kid of a peasant. Also given the situation, where Ghislaine thought Roger was dead, there would have been less talk.

As for the fact that it's a recurve bow and not a longbow... I'm not even going to try.

The composite recurve bit makes me sad. I'd always thought he got the bow when he was crusading and then taught one of the local fletchers to build them.

Places where they missed the boat.

Loved this bit! Too true.
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